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Post by hermin1 on Oct 5, 2012 17:52:04 GMT -5
According to James L. Hansen,Genealogical Reference Librarian of Wisconsin State Hist. Soc."there is good reason to believe that james alexander Frazier,the father of Joseph "Jack "Frazier was not the father of his two "sisters" .Joseph 1ack related that his father left the area during the War of 1812 and Joseph Jack never saw or heard from him again. His father had married Euphrosine Antaya on 10 June,1811 at Prairie du Chien,then deserted her on or about May 1812, ahd in the 1820's was living on Drummond island. Joseph jack's mother lived with the Sioux in the 1830's. jack's two sisters were most likely maternal half sisters, born of his mother and a Sioux husband" (Ref. The Origins of the Roc/Rock Family of prairie du chien and Wabasha. James L. Hansen,F.A.S.G.The Genealogist.Spring 1997. Vol. 11.No.1) His two "sisters" were named Lucy and Margaret. In the same reference, hansen wrote that Margaret was born in 1819. Lucy was said to have been born @1824 in vicinity of Ft. Snelling..
Joseph Jack had only one full sibling: Sophia frazier. Sophia married Cetanwicakte in Minn. before 1862 uprising.before the uprising).Correction: His daughter,Sophia Frazier married Cetanwicakte in Minnesota so jack had a sister named Sophia and a daughter named Sophia.
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Post by hermin1 on Nov 12, 2012 12:48:20 GMT -5
james hansen also,in the reference I cited, speculated that Hazadowin may have been the daughter of Yusdehiwin,sister of Chief Wakute, and Joseph laRocque/or Rocque/Roc. he did not provide any documenatation to confirm his speculation.
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Post by kermit frazier on Nov 24, 2012 11:31:30 GMT -5
on James Frazier daughter baptism it is dated1817 so he mustard of ben around?
only going by the dates that Margaret has on her probate for her birth give or take a few years and what the affidavits say on behalf of Mar great.
i read that chief wakute was a step son to chief red wing. that is why i am so inter rested in Hazzadowin trying to find out who her father and mother are. because of what i read, trying to put the puzzle together
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Post by hermin1 on Nov 28, 2012 15:44:47 GMT -5
not much is known about the families of the first and second chief Redwings.After Walking buffalo died in 1829,there were some in the tribe,who felt that Wacouta should not be the successor to his father,because he was a half breed,his father apparently had a non-indian wife. The band split up, and Wacouta with his bunch went to live near Wabasha's band.
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Post by Kermit Frazier on Nov 30, 2012 14:52:29 GMT -5
Hermin so what you are saying is the Sophia that married Centanwicakte is Joseph Jack full sibling?
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Post by hermin1 on Dec 1, 2012 15:28:35 GMT -5
No. What I am saying is that the Sophia Frazier that married Cetanwicakte was jack's daughter by Margaret(Comes Home In Triumph). Jack did have a full sibling,also named Sophia Frazier, born of the same parents, as he. As for Joseph jack's Father James Alexander, note that his daughte by Ms. Antaya,r was born in Wisconsi, and his other son was born in Michigan.We do not know for certain, where Joseph jack was during the period of time between the births of the above half siblings. His father did send Joseph Jack to Canada for Schooling(ref. Completing The Circle).
joseph "jack" himself had several children by several different womwn before he married Maragaret(Comes home in triumph), then married his last two wives.
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Post by Kermit frazier on Dec 2, 2012 22:54:17 GMT -5
Herman don't get me wrong. Margaret is called Waktehnihdewin comes home in triumph and looking at what you have i can understand that it would look like Jack and Margaret have children together. if i am looking at comes home in triumph tree line she wed ita wankan? correct?.
if ite maza jack had married comes home in triumph all her kids would be in line for the money that the family's got when he was a scout during the up rising in 1862?. i did not see any of Margaret's kids on the scouts list as being heirs of Jacks?. i did order jacks papers from the NARA. hoping to see if Jack was called Ite Wankan and to see if any of Margaret's kids was on his line. i did see James Frazier on the scouts list and all his heirs. why was the other kids of Margaret and jacks not on the list.
it leaves room for more searching on the Frazier family that is why Ita Wankan is so important to find any information on him to confirm this.
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Post by KERMIT FRAZIER on Dec 6, 2012 14:28:17 GMT -5
Hermin have you found any paper on Joseph jack Frazier being called ite wankan?
Hermin i also found the name Francois Roi he signed the affidavit for Margaret Frazier, he was working for a M.Graverat and he wintered at Mackinac, date june 25,1816.
So i was thinking of what the fella said to me. that Jack was just trying to get his sister half breed script of land. if this was the case why would Francios Roi signe a affidavit saying James Frazier was the father of Margaret?
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Post by Kermit Frazier on Dec 6, 2012 14:30:06 GMT -5
Hermin have you found any paper were Jack was called John?
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Post by hermin1 on Dec 6, 2012 17:21:51 GMT -5
Hermin have you found any paper on Joseph jack Frazier being called ite wankan? Hermin i also found the name Francois Roi he signed the affidavit for Margaret Frazier, he was working for a M.Graverat and he wintered at Mackinac, date june 25,1816. So i was thinking of what the fella said to me. that Jack was just trying to get his sister half breed script of land. if this was the case why would Francios Roi signe a affidavit saying James Frazier was the father of Margaret? ______ kermit,the persons aren't alive so we can ask them why they did something or signed something. Joseph jack knew a lot of Frenchmen and probably they did signed his affidavits because they were friends. the Reference to Sophia is from that Book"The Spirit Car". according to the cousin of theauthor,whom I just got off the phone with, the book has a lot of errors.through Dakota Eyes has a lot of inaccuracies also.
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Post by Kermit Frazier on Dec 7, 2012 11:39:46 GMT -5
Hermin thanks for the chat yesterday! i did enjoy talking with you and i would like to do more with you some time. i am sorry i got busy last night. i do look forward to chatting with you again.
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Post by kermit frazier on Dec 27, 2012 12:59:37 GMT -5
Hermin i put in a request for Lucy Frazier, i heard that she put in for a half breed script of land. i hope this pans out to find out if Lucy Frazier was in fact Joseph Jacks sister! of Margaret Frazier Daughter? we know how they did not keep good records back then, it just makes my search that much harder because of that.
i am still searching for papers that called Jack Ita wanka! i still have not in all my research found any papers where Jack was called Ita Wakan.
i have not found any information on when Margaret married Ite Wakan? it is hard tracking the information because i only do this part time and it had been rewarding for me to find my people and where they came from. i do share all my information with my family because it is important to know where we come from!.
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Post by kermit frazier on Dec 29, 2012 19:53:12 GMT -5
Hermin i was lookinf on the Ravoux Baptismal 1851 -1858
a Francios Roi 9 Months old Parents Francios Roi /Marguerite ( Siouze)
Sponsors Jacques Frazer / Jane Kilkoul
when you look at the second page what do you think? i would like your input thanks.
this is what i thought when i sen it? is this why Francios Rio signed Margaret paper for half breed script of land and is the Jacks sister?
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Post by Kermit Frazier on Jan 3, 2013 14:56:55 GMT -5
Hermin what do you know of a Itewankanhdi? i see he was on the Husasa band list @ sante 1869?
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Post by hermin1 on Jan 4, 2013 9:53:47 GMT -5
kermit: All I knowis that he was listed under Husasa's band in that Santee Census. he ws also a prisoner at Davenport. You know what puzzles me? The list of those Sioux that were held at Ft. Snelling in1862-1864? Joe jack Frazier was listed among the half breeds. But he listed only himself under number in Vamily. so he must have separated from Margaret before the Sioux were interned at Ft. Snelling in 1862. Re. Itewakan: The only place I have seen the name ite Wakan is onthat Bia Chart of the Frazier Family . Ialso saw Margaret listed only as Winona on another Frazier Family Chart.
Getting back to Jo Jack,he became a scout for the Army . when he left the army, he settled at Faribault Minn. with one of his last wives,jane. He also had another wife(white woman) living in Canada at the same time. I can only guess, that joe jack died in 1869. the Scout list was made out in 1891-1892. I don't know why Margaret nd her children did not apply for the death benefit for him.
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