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Post by CW Bearshield on Apr 10, 2007 17:54:22 GMT -5
I am wondering if Lucy Mahpiyawakenze is related to GoodWoman aka WinyanWaste. If so, what is the connection? She is my great great grandmother.  |
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Post by fwaukazoo on Apr 11, 2007 23:00:41 GMT -5
hermin11
I will send a request for Nancy St. Clair and Charles St. Clair's Probate papers.
I will get back to you as some as I hear anything.
fwaukazoo.
I visited the enrollment office at Santee, sum time ago, and the people were very friendly and helpful in providing the records they had. All got was 1/8 DOIB on the Blacksmith side , and nothing on the St. Clair side.
So, I'm file a claim using Betsey Mary St. Clair as the "Mdewakanton Ancestor," to find more about St. Clairs, and fine that 1/8, we been a missing. If someone disputes it, fine, my wife tells me that they just can't say why is not, but show why is not. So, if Barbara Buttes or the BIA, what to challenge it, I hope they do, they will have to come up with the records, to tell who her people were. The records don't show that Nancy, is not related to Betsey.
Mark Diedich in his book, "Old Betsey," lists Nancy as a child of Betsey.
He also believes that Nancy was maried to Round Wind.
He starts this theory off by using a newpaper article, about a Indian village in south St. Paul, MN. The Farmington Press, August 29, 1872, tells about some of the people who were live there. "It says that Old Betz, with her two daughters-widows of noted warriors who were hung for atrocities committed during the massacre-resides that famous squaw, ..." Thats were Manny Hail and Round Wind comes in.
This is how I made the connection between Betsey and Nancy, using ark Diedrich book.
Exhibit D.
Farmington Press, August 29, 1872, Dakota County Historical Society,
Research Library and Museum, 130 Third Avenue North, South Saint Paul, MN 5507.
Old Betsey Genealogy (Chart), pages 133-134,
From the book, Old Betsey, The Life and Times of a Famous Dakota Woman and Her Family, By Mark Diedrich, 1995, Coyote Books, Rochester, MN.
(27) Nancy St. Clair (Anpahdiwin),
daughter of
(55) Betsey Mary St. Clair, "Old Bets," (Hazainyankewin).
Mr. Mark Diedrich, puts forward the theory, that Nancy St. Clair (Anpahdiwin), is the daughter of Betsey Mary St. Clair, "Old Bets," (Hazainyankewin). There is no direct evidence due to the lack of detailed record keeping by the Indian Agency and no physical records keeping of births and deaths by the bands. There were two of Betsey daughters who were reported to the wives of men hung (Many Hails and Round Wind), by the Farmington Press, August 29, 1872. One may have been Mary Payah and another Appearing Day Woman (Anpahdiwin), later known as Nancy St. Clair, according to Diedrich.
Mr. Diedrich base this claim on circumstantial evidence, such as;
1. Betsey's child bearing years, and Nancy year of birth date falls in that range.
2. Diedrich reason that Round Wind was probably married to Nancy Anphdiwin (St. Clair). Round Wind had two wives in the 1830's, and was a headman of the Lac qui Parle Wahpetons. He had come down from Lac qui Parle with the new "Little Crow" in 1846, subsequently married one of Betsey's daughters after removing to Kaposia. Tatemima (Round-Wind) was the brother of Mary Renville 1797-1840, wife of Joseph Renville the famed trader 1779-1846, and was related to the Little Crow family. If he was born around the same time of his sister, in 1846 he would of been around 49 years old and Nancy was about 15, and in 1862 he would been 65, and Nancy 31, they would been married at the most 16 years. At the treaty council of Traverse des Sioux 1851, Little Crow (Taoyateduta), the son of Big Thunder, attended with some of his warriors, including Betsey's son, Taopi, and Round Wind (Tatemima). According Diedrich, Medicine Woman was apparently widowed from 1852-56, and does not seem to have been the wife of Many Hails or Round Wind. Round Wind had one wife and two children on the 1853 and 1857 Kaposian annuity rolls. Since Scarlet Woman had five in her family in 1862, she was probably not Round Wind's wife either.
Add support of Diedrich theory, in which Nancy was married before with children, maybe on the 1900 Federal Census, Nancy response was; birth Oct. 1831, age 68, married 31 years, 5 children, 1 living (Isabel), her mother, father and herself are Sioux born in Minnesota. On the 1885 and 1890 Santee census, Charles St. Clair relationship to Nancy Anphdiwin is listed as grandmother, and parents are listed as Trombly and Winonna. Maybe one of them was the child of Round Wind and Nancy, who may of pass way. Isabel was born in 1870, and father was a Thomas Miller. According to the Oct. 1, 1875 Santee census, of the 6 bands. Nancy (Anpehdiwin) is listed under Hakewaste's Band (Betsey's nephew), as Anpehdiwin 1w, 1b15 (Charles St. Clair), 1b5 c.o (died), 1g10 (Isabel).
Round Wind sounds like he knew he was old and near death, at the time, according to Diedrich and Taopi's statement in Whipple's book. The Morning of August 18, 1862, old man (Tah-e-mi-na) Round Wind came from Little Crow's village, and told Taopi, "All the upper bands are armed and coming down the road." Taopi asked, "For what purpose are they coming?" He, said "I don't know." Round Wind warned Andrew Hunter, the son-in-law of Dr. Williamson. to flee to the fort. Round Wind found himself among those condemned to death for having been a crier for the Soldiers' lodge. Round Wind was among the condemned because a German boy had blamed him for killing his mother. Louis Getzman being sworn says, "I am twelve years old. Saw this old Indian shoot my mother." Several days previous to the execution, he was baptized Joseph by Dr. Williamson. Anpahdiwin was baptized Nancy by Rev. Dr. Williamson in the same time period. Thinking his fate was sealed, he sent word to his relatives not to mourn his death-that "he was old and could not hope to live long under any circumstances, and his execution would not shorten his days a great deal, and dying as he did innocent of any white man's blood, he hoped would give him a better chance to be saved; therefore he hoped his friends would consider his death but as a removal from this to a better world." December 6, 1862 President Lincoln issues an order allowing only 39 of the planned 300 executions to go forward. Under this ruling thirty-nine were condemned; one, however, succeeded in proving an alibi, and but thirty-eight were executed. This thirty-ninth man was Tatemima (Round-Wind), (Pond, 1916). The suspended came after new evidence casts doubt upon his guilt.
3. The adoption of the surname "St. Clair," that was first adopt by Job St. Clair, Lighting Maker (Wakandikaga), who is listed on the 1886 McLeod Census, and then by Nancy St. Clair who was located at the Santee Agency, Nebraska, but may of lived part of time with her mother. Surname were not used, because family members live as a group in a village, or a band, and its said that if a person was from a village, they are more likely related to Chief or headman. Indian names were used to distinguish the individual, in which a person may receive a birth-order name as a child, and then through achievement or an event by an individual earn a Indian name, which may occur more than once.
All I have is my memories of my Mother and Grandmother talking about Nancy St. Clair at the kitchen table, recounting that she travel a lot to Minnesota and she send a box of lace baby clothes when my mother was born. They indicated that Nancy had relatives in Minnesota. The lace craft was taught to Indian women, in connection with the Episcopal mission, instituted by Sibyl Carter. Amelia St. Clair (Mrs. Henry W.) and Mary Wabasha were also evolved in Lace Making.
On the Register of Santee Indian Families- Ca. 1902, Nancy list her father as Magahdahiyaye and mother as Canhuyuhewin. The page of the register looks to be done in the same handwriting, the name Magahdahiyaye maybe corrupted spelling of Mazasagyi (Iron Sword), her father and Canhuyuhewin with Nancy referring to her mother was the wife of Good Road in saying Cankuwastewin (Good Road Woman).
end
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Post by hermin11 on Apr 12, 2007 12:18:31 GMT -5
In the probate of Ptesanwin, from which I took notes is mention of a Charles St. Clair, with his parents listed as Winona aka Wista(d/o of Hepan and Mazaitewin) and a White Man.
Charles wife is noted to be Mary Hoffman. Hepan was the s/o Ptesanwin and Wamndikinyanhiyaye.
ptesanwin was thedaughter of Itazipi(aka L'Arc) and Hazawastewin(d/of Wabashaw III0
In the 1902 Santee Register of Indian Families is the same Charles St. Clair, and his mother is
listed as Wista(deceased). His wife is Mary Hoffman and her parents are listed as Charles
Hoffman and Emma Redowl..
I will be very interested in what you find when you get those probates.
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Post by hermin11 on Apr 14, 2007 14:11:07 GMT -5
I am wondering if Lucy Mahpiyawakenze is related to GoodWoman aka WinyanWaste. If so, what is the connection? She is my great great grandmother. I am sorry , I do not know. I Only have the information re. Lucy that I foundin the reference I found in the dissertation by Caroline R. anderson, Dakota Identity in Minnesota 1820 - 1995. 1996. Indiana University. Chapter 4 : Return to Prairie Island. |
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Post by hermin11 on Apr 25, 2007 21:59:06 GMT -5
In the probate of Ptesanwin, from which I took notes is mention of a Charles St. Clair, with his parents listed as Winona aka Wista(d/o of Hepan and Mazaitewin) and a White Man. Charles wife is noted to be Mary Hoffman. Hepan was the s/o Ptesanwin and Wamndikinyanhiyaye. ptesanwin was thedaughter of Itazipi(aka L'Arc) and Hazawastewin(d/of Wabashaw III0 In the 1902 Santee Register of Indian Families is the same Charles St. Clair, and his mother is listed as Wista(deceased). His wife is Mary Hoffman and her parents are listed as Charles Hoffman and Emma Redowl.. I will be very interested in what you find when you get those probates. Correction: hazawastewin was thedaughter of Wapahasha II, not Wapahasha IIII. I have a new keyboard and it is quite senitive.i apologizefor the error. |
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Post by tamara on Apr 28, 2007 1:13:08 GMT -5
Two questions.
1. Whitedog or Sunkaska, anyone know a book resource for his family line? I came across some notes in my grandpa's stuff and of course he is no longer here to ask, but it says Maripinapewin or Agnes Foster 3rd wife died 1916 age 76 no issue
cut off above it shows Hapan or Nancy Paul (this is the one that was married to old frank stay) and says father of nancy Paul or Hapan -Magaiyahe
I would like to know if anyone has a family tree that would include the wives of white dog
2. Spottedtail a Brule, but I am looking for some basic genealogy on him as well.
I am putting this out there while I am searching, in the interest of time.
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Post by mdenney on Apr 28, 2007 1:22:30 GMT -5
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Post by mdenney on Apr 28, 2007 1:27:36 GMT -5
Sunkaska, Joseph (White Dog): Sioux (Cheyenne River, SD) October 1881-July 1885. Carpenter, blacksmith, policeman, and farmer. "Good boy." Later changed his name to Joseph White Dog. He was the Nephew of Chief Little No Heart. www.twofrog.com/hamptonmale3.txt |
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Post by tamara on Apr 28, 2007 1:29:15 GMT -5
wow.. the first hit "leonard peltier site" with references to my favorite historian Mr Garcia, is AWSOME! Thanks Mike.... |
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Post by mdenney on Apr 28, 2007 1:32:23 GMT -5
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Post by mdenney on Apr 28, 2007 1:48:22 GMT -5
This is a good search engine to use First you put in what you searching for in the first box click search then X it out and click on the next search below and so on - I better say the first box means nothing dont look at what it finds it only adds what you are searching for to the other search engines thats why you x it out then continue on .. www.20search.com/ |
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Post by vicky on Apr 28, 2007 20:09:43 GMT -5
Tamara- Here is Spotted Tail's family, gathered from various sources, mainly Rosebud Agency info - All of his children were born MUCH later than our mysterious Rosalie c. 1830. Spotted was born in 1823 near the WY border with SD. Can't be Rosalie's father, he was only 7 when she was born. Chief Spotted Tail family- Father- Hole in the Nose, AKA Cunka (Tangle Hair) Mother- Collecting Crockery, AKA Walks with the Pipe Brother- Blue Around the Face Uncle by marriage- Crazy Horse Spotted Tail Wife #1- Unknown Children- 1. Her Yellow Horse 2. At the Earth 13 others died in infancy Wife #2- Bites Loose Children- 1. Gets Brave at Home 2. William Spotted Tail b. 1863 3. Max Spotted Tail b. 1865 4. Poor Boy ? Little Scout (Pollack) b. 1870 ? Talks With Bear (Oliver) b. 1865 Wife #3- Yellow Doe Children- 1. Her Red Road b. 1861 2. Two White Cows 3. Wants Her 4. Floppy girl 5. Girl 6. Bald Headed Girl 7. No record 8. Her Horse Wife #4- Her Black Home Children- None Wife #5- Hears Horse Children- 1. Looking at the White Buffalo 2. Makes it Savage and then Kill 3.Child died in infancy Wife 6- Unknown Children- None Wife #7-Bobtail Mother Children- None Wife #8- Unknown Children- None Wife #9- Unknown Children- None A child, Fleet Foot is buried at Laramie, WY. Two questions. 1. Whitedog or Sunkaska, anyone know a book resource for his family line? I came across some notes in my grandpa's stuff and of course he is no longer here to ask, but it says Maripinapewin or Agnes Foster 3rd wife died 1916 age 76 no issue cut off above it shows Hapan or Nancy Paul (this is the one that was married to old frank stay) and says father of nancy Paul or Hapan -Magaiyahe I would like to know if anyone has a family tree that would include the wives of white dog 2. Spottedtail a Brule, but I am looking for some basic genealogy on him as well. I am putting this out there while I am searching, in the interest of time. |
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Post by hermin11 on Apr 30, 2007 3:24:09 GMT -5
Tamara: here is what I have:
He was the husband of Sarah White Dog-Goodthunder.
he was hung at Mankato in 1862. He was the first leader of that Farmer band that ws formed . then he was repaced by taopi when the new Indian Agent took over a coupld years before the uprising. Sarah, his wife was the d/o Chief Wapahasha aka The Leaf.
children: 3 of the children died at the Crow Creek Reservation 1863/64.
Sarah , after White Dog was hung, later married Goodthunder in Early June of 1864 in Minneapolis at the Church of Gesthemane, by an Episcopal xlergyman, according to Diedrich in his book about Od Betsey.
I also have a Shunkaska/White Dog Devils Lake Sioux Allot #280, who was born 1847 and died in 1930. He ws a scout for Sibley Expedition of 1863.
His siblings were Desired Woman, Wite woman, Mato Wakan(Sacred or Holy Bear).
I am wonderingif this second White Dog is the one that Anna Hunka and her kids met up with during their flight from Minnesota in 1862. According to Frank Stay,Jr., he was the cousin of anna.
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Post by tamara on Apr 30, 2007 19:18:34 GMT -5
Tamara: here is what I have: He was the husband of Sarah White Dog-Goodthunder. he was hung at Mankato in 1862. He was the first leader of that Farmer band that ws formed . then he was repaced by taopi when the new Indian Agent took over a coupld years before the uprising. Sarah, his wife was the d/o Chief Wapahasha aka The Leaf. children: 3 of the children died at the Crow Creek Reservation 1863/64. Sarah , after White Dog was hung, later married Goodthunder in Early June of 1864 in Minneapolis at the Church of Gesthemane, by an Episcopal xlergyman, according to Diedrich in his book about Od Betsey. I also have a Shunkaska/White Dog Devils Lake Sioux Allot #280, who was born 1847 and died in 1930. He ws a scout for Sibley Expedition of 1863. His siblings were Desired Woman, Wite woman, Mato Wakan(Sacred or Holy Bear). I am wonderingif this second White Dog is the one that Anna Hunka and her kids met up with during their flight from Minnesota in 1862. According to Frank Stay,Jr., he was the cousin of anna. Oh the confusion!! the reason I am asking for info on White Dog is that in the bit of a family tree with probate information on it and dates for some shows a few names under White Dog but the top is cut off. It would appear that this is a listing of different wives of White Dog and the line above Marpiinapewin or Agnes Foster 3rd wife says "wife" Hapan died 1/2/97 age 47 (this must be Nancy Stay Paul's mother since she herself died in around 1920 or so) underneath this father of Nancy Paul or Hapan - Magaaiyahe |
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Post by hermin11 on May 1, 2007 14:05:57 GMT -5
I agree with you Tamara. Now I am confused. ther are abviously two White Dogs born back then.
the white dog that I listed wit the siblings above, was a half brother to solomon RedFox, and I think, Anna Hunka. Their father was Sacred Standing Cow/Buffalo.
a while back, I received a record from my friends in North dakota that had the family tree of Sacred Standing Buffalo which was compiled by Mr. Garcia.
But, my brother's wife decided to help me reorganize my office. I had to go to the doctor , and when I got back that day, my office was completely rearranged, and now I can't find anything! hahahaha.
Luckily, I had transferred the info, to my index.
for children of SAcred Standing buffalo, besides Anna Hunkawin, Solomon Redfox, and Sacred Visible Voice whom he had with Tateahnahiyayewin, I have:Iron Dog, Grey Thunder, Goodhouse, and Chase(fatherof Lillian Chase). the siblings of white dog , according to that document I mentioned earlier, are the 1/2 siblings of Solomon Redfox. i am assuming that the would be the half siblings of Anna and her sister as well, wouldn't you?
Something that doesn't make sense to me is that Mr. Garcia on that web site you mehhntioned, has Sacred Standing cow/buffalo as the nephew of thunderface, and Tateahnahiyayewin as the sister of Thunderface. Does this mean that Ptewakannanajin married his Aunt?
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